The Legacy Martial Arts Business Podcast

Nick Castiglia (00:02.382)
What's up everybody? We are here, the Legacy Martial Arts Business Podcast. We are here with my amazing friend, Brendan, the CEO of Wotify, Brendan Rice. Brendan Rice, correct?

Brendan Rice (00:18.962)
and rice, yep.

Nick Castiglia (00:21.198)
Just making sure, just making sure. I got concussed on the weekend, Brendan, so you have to forgive me.

Brendan Rice (00:25.618)
You had me going with the amazing friend intro and then you had to confirm the last name, so we lost a point there. But thanks for having me on, Nick. I appreciate it.

Nick Castiglia (00:32.238)
Yeah.

Nick Castiglia (00:36.878)
All right, okay, we're gonna get right into it. Brendan, CEO of Wattify. I always like to hear people's history first. So like what led you into this industry or what even led you to working with Wattify? Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and your background?

Brendan Rice (01:00.914)
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks again for having me on. Excited for you guys to launch this podcast and be one of the first two episodes. So my background, and really quick for people who are listening and might not know, Wattify as a company, we make software for gym owners. We are a customer retention platform that powers thousands of businesses around the world, mostly functional fitness and jujitsu and other genres of martial arts. We started back in 2012.

My background and how I ended up at Wattify, the kind of cliff notes version is I was always interested in technology and entrepreneurship growing up. My dad started a company and going through college and after college, I got a lot of exposure to early stage tech companies and startups. But I really didn't have that much exposure to the world of fitness until I started at Wattify. And I started about six and a half, seven years ago now.

And when I joined the company, I just threw myself into the world of CrossFit and after that, Jiu -Jitsu and since then, a lot of other types of fitness. But yeah, so my background is in kind of early stage tech companies. And then I've spent now most of my career at Spotify. So I've watched Spotify grow more than double in size since I started and grow to serve. We started as a really specific

Nick Castiglia (02:09.438)
Thank you.

Nick Castiglia (02:14.298)
Thank you.

Brendan Rice (02:28.146)
tool for CrossFit gyms to track performance. And now we are a complete set of features for any type of fitness business to run their entire business.

Nick Castiglia (02:38.846)
Wow, that's awesome.

Brendan Rice (02:44.146)
Thanks for watching!

Nick Castiglia (02:44.846)
So like, Wattify, why don't you begin talking about, you know, I obviously know like the benefits of using Wattify, but you know, why don't we talk about, because Wattify, WOD, workout of the day, you know, I'm sure a lot of people hear Wattify and they're like, you know, what does that have to do with martial arts, you know?

How did that crossover begin to happen? Why don't you tell us how Wattify, you know, transcended from just being from what I assume just CrossFit gyms and then moved into the martial arts industry. Why don't we talk about that first?

Brendan Rice (03:26.77)
Yeah, definitely. So that is sometimes one of the first impressions people have of our company given the name. And like you said, that is where we got our start. So in 2012 and 13, we built technology that helped revolutionize how CrossFit gyms used software and technology in their business. And so for those of you who maybe aren't familiar with CrossFit or have never done it before,

People used to come into a CrossFit gym and the owner or coach would write the workout on a whiteboard and they would tell every athlete at the gym to keep track of how they did, either write your score up on the whiteboard or your time or keep track of it in a notebook. And there's some obvious inefficiencies there, but the problem that we solved and why we succeeded as a business and grew organically to CrossFit gyms around the world is we solved a retention problem by creating technology that...

moved the adoption of tracking that performance from mostly just the top competitors to everyone in the gym and created a lot of operational efficiency for the gym owners. So the core kind of belief in our company is technology can improve fitness businesses when you create differentiators like that. And we focused for the first few years of the company on that problem for CrossFit gyms and growing from there to serve very similar types of gyms and adding on features like class scheduling,

and billing and all of the basic CRM features that any fitness business needs. And then about three or four years ago is when we really got into Jiu -Jitsu and martial arts. And so the insight was actually very similar to what we had in CrossFit. A number of us at Wattify have personal experience in that industry, but we also started seeing customers just signing up because maybe they had started a CrossFit jam or knew about us from CrossFit and they opened a Jiu -Jitsu school.

Nick Castiglia (05:02.19)
Thank you.

Nick Castiglia (05:08.814)
Thank you.

Brendan Rice (05:18.034)
or another type of martial arts academy, or just were referred by a friend, and they started using Wotify and asking us for features that would better fit that market. Very simple example is like digital belt and level tracking. So we knew we had to build that. But that's how we got into it. It was pretty organic. We just saw some demand from the market for a better solution in the martial arts space. And we felt we could build not only a better solution, but also introduce...

new technology in a way that could create differentiators for martial arts schools. So those are some of my favorite examples to talk about is how we've created software that is now Jim's martial arts schools that use Wattify. The way they talk about it is it sets my business apart from the other schools in my area, which I think is often not how people think about their management software. So I think that's been one of the coolest things.

Nick Castiglia (06:13.006)
Yeah, no, not at all. Yeah, yeah, not at all for sure. Like I would say like nobody is like, my God, my CRM has changed the game for me. You know, like nobody is usually saying that, but I think, you know, I have several, different questions, but one comment I would like to make is like,

the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu gyms that you had been working with, and this was what you said on a webinar that we did together, and I was blown away at this, that the average Brazilian Jiu Jitsu gym that started using your software doubled the length of their average students of engagement from eight months to 16 months.

Like.

why? Like I'm, you know, I know the answer why, but I want to ask this question here because I think this is like the answer to that question is so valuable for any gym owner that's, that's watching us. If you could say, Hey, listen, if you can do this one thing, then you have the, you have the potential ability to double your average student's length instinct.

Brendan Rice (07:28.21)
Yeah.

Nick Castiglia (07:35.534)
Why don't you talk about that for us, Brennan? I think this is super interesting.

Brendan Rice (07:39.314)
Yeah, absolutely. And so like that, and that kind of is the perspective we have on the market. Like I can't come on, you know, right now and tell you about what I do at my martial arts school and how we're successful because I don't run a martial arts school. And so, but what we do have is access to a lot of data. So we look at a lot, thousands of businesses worth of data and we have benchmarking industry data. And then we look at trends across those businesses. And so that's kind of,

the perspective we have to offer. So what that means is I feel really confident about the sample size, but the caveat is your business is unique. So take all of this insight and tailor it and think about how it applies to your business. But the stat you mentioned, I think in terms of growing retention, there isn't, there's not a silver bullet, right? But the way we think about it is the best kind of catch -all term is engagement. So think about how engaged,

all of your students are with your business. The simplest and easiest metric to start with is attendance. And so I might have shared this on the webinar as well, but what we see is there's a little bit of a magic number around 11 attendances a month. If people are attending 11 or more times per month, there's a 99 % chance you're going to retain that student. So whether you use Spotify or not, that's just a really simple place to start. The reason that gym owners that use Spotify see

so much higher retention rates and length of engagement is because we provide a suite of other digital tools to increase that engagement. So another simple one is we have the ability to create in -app chats, either one -to -one or with classes. And I was talking to one of our martial arts school owners the other day who said the way they use that is at the end of every day, they send class recaps just to the students who attended those classes with additional resources, summaries of what was worked on, and videos.

And just think about that for a second. It sounds simple, but how many gyms aren't doing that? And those are the kind of things where you're providing that level of engagement and value over time, not just for the one hour they show up for class, that results in this longer term retention. So that's just one tool. We have a number of other ones. But the entire way we allow for curriculum and content in our software, we allow you to build out on -demand libraries. And...

Nick Castiglia (09:42.926)
Thank you.

Nick Castiglia (10:06.062)
Thank you.

Brendan Rice (10:06.418)
daily and weekly programming and videos. And the kind of anecdotes that support the high level data are like when I show up to these gyms and we'll talk to students when they're walking out of class, or we'll do kind of focus group style interviews, and they say things like, I feel so much more confident when I'm coming into class, or they'll say things like, I feel like I've been able to learn so much faster now. And when you give people that feeling of progressing and...

Nick Castiglia (10:10.734)
Okay.

Brendan Rice (10:33.266)
additional resources where they're not going home and just watching random YouTube videos, then they're more connected to the business and they're going to stay at your business for longer.

Nick Castiglia (10:43.822)
Yeah, I have a couple things, taking notes on the side as you're talking there. And I think the old school mentality, I think people need to understand that like, which is Jitsu's popularity. The old school martial arts mentality, like, man, I just opened up a gym, you show up and you pay and you know, like that, like people are consumers now. They wanna have.

an exceptional experience and the only way you're going to be able to keep them is from what exactly you said. How engaged are you with all of your students? I think some of the stuff that you're doing is like cutting edge in app chats, going over class recaps, resources and videos. Like there is a great video that just talks about time on brand and it just, you're just getting your, your clients to spend.

more time on your brand. And you know, there's a course that we teach in legacy where we talk about tribalomics and it's like, how do you continue to build that overlap with your students? And there's only one way it's energy. It's either you're putting energy into them or they're putting energy into you. And that is the only way to continue to build that overlap with your students. You stole one of my other talking points, which was the,

which was the amazing stat from the webinar of just getting, if you can get your students to train 11 times per month, you have a 99 % chance, a higher chance of them staying. And I feel like that one small piece of knowledge, like,

resonated with me from the day of the webinar. So much to the point that we are developing for the kids in my headquarters school, an attendance reward system for the children to get them as close as we can to that 11 times a month mark. Because, you know, we say this in legacy too, sometimes you just got to help people.

Nick Castiglia (13:10.286)
eat their vegetables, you know, I don't know if you have kids, but you're like, Hey, here's, here's the airplane, you know, as you like, trick them into eating their vegetables, right? So like for kids, you know, we're going to be releasing in the next 60 days, it's like attendance reward system that goes across a year based on just that stat. I think that is like the one of the most powerful, gems of knowledge that you shared with me.

Brendan Rice (13:12.882)
Yeah.

Nick Castiglia (13:39.758)
And here's the thing, like that knowledge is not based on, Hey, I feel like, no, it's based on data. It's based on data from hundreds of gyms, you know, that you work with already. I have another question though. You had said when you had started working in the fitness industry, that you had seen a retention problem and you had also talked about, you know, you have a lot of benchmark industry data in a CrossFit facility.

What is the retention like? Like what is the percentage of attrition every month that's like average? Like are they losing 3 % a month or is it, or is it they're losing five or 10 % a month? Like what is the average in the CrossFit industry?

Brendan Rice (14:26.478)
Yeah, the average is somewhere between the latest stats I've seen in general, somewhere between 10 % and 15%.

Nick Castiglia (14:36.718)
10 and 15 percent. Wow. And that's the average.

Brendan Rice (14:43.122)
Yeah, and I think, I will say I don't think that's just for CrossFit. I think that's for kind of small group training in general. But if you think about, you know, a hundred person gym, that's one a month. But yeah, it's higher than it needs to be. And I think the reasons, and I mean, like I said, the caveat here is every business is different, but...

If you're not already doing some sort of exit survey, you should be to understand if there's something specific about your business that people are leaving. Like is it, you know, the class times or the programming, but in general, what we see with the gyms that are doing better than that is this investment in engagement, tooling and resourcing outside of just come in, take a class, pay your 150 bucks a month. Like the model that I think all the people listening follow is.

higher value and therefore higher price than like a $20 a month gym people go to. And when people just show up, walk into class, no one talks to them, take a class, walk out, they don't engage with your business till the next class, you're getting dangerously close to competing with those kind of businesses. So you really have to find other ways to add value.

Nick Castiglia (16:03.822)
So you said one a month so that like 10 to 15 percent that's based on the year Do you have like a like a monthly, you know, like a monthly benchmark industry average for CrossFit gyms?

Brendan Rice (16:20.178)
I don't want to throw anything off the top of my head, so I'd have to look back at the two -brain report that they put out every year probably has that, but I add it off the top of my head.

Nick Castiglia (16:31.502)
Okay. And is the retention rate, you know, or you want to say attrition rate, however you want to call it. Is it similar for the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu schools? Like, like what is your information from the industry? What is your information from the people? Well, the people that work with you, obviously you're saying you're doubling the length of engagement.

Brendan Rice (16:58.898)
Yeah.

Nick Castiglia (17:01.006)
But what have you noticed when people, you know, cause I'm sure you guys are monitoring this data, right? Because you're trying to solve the problem as you were saying. So what have you noticed is when people first start, what is the average attrition rate that people are, martial arts schools or BJJ schools are having when they start with you first?

Brendan Rice (17:23.122)
Yeah, I think it goes back to that average of around eight, I think a little, yeah, between like seven and nine months. But I think the average comes out to right around eight is how long the average student stays. And then in terms of the percentage, it does fluctuate a lot, like a lot higher, there's a lot higher churn in the first 90 days than there is once. That's another kind of similar to the 11 times a month metric of getting people past that, get people to the 90 day mark.

Nick Castiglia (17:51.31)
Thank you.

Brendan Rice (17:52.114)
and they're much more likely to stay for over a year. So that's kind of another tactical way to think about how to improve retention at your business is focus on the first 90 days. And we have some tools that can help with that. But once you get past 90 days, the retention rates get a lot higher. And so when we see Jujitsu schools join Wattify, on average right now, they're, you know, after getting on board with the software and collecting enough data,

Nick Castiglia (18:20.046)
Now, I like it. Do you train Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Brennan? Do you train?

Brendan Rice (18:21.234)
they're usually getting close to doubling their retention.

Brendan Rice (18:34.002)
I trained multiple times per week for about nine months, but I haven't done that in a couple years. So I'm a little out of practice, but I get it.

Nick Castiglia (18:42.286)
Okay. Okay. Do you know the joke of like when people get their blue belt, they disappear? Like have you ever, have you, are you familiar?

Brendan Rice (18:53.042)
I thought it was, I thought, I would have assumed it was the opposite, but no, tell me, tell me why you think that's the case.

Nick Castiglia (18:57.354)
Yeah, there's like a whole bunch of like memes and videos and reels on you know on Instagram about like, you know people crying like because person got their blue belt and then they just disappear they disappear after you know, like that's a big joke In the industry what why that is the case, you know, I don't know if I were to guess I would say

you know, blue is typically the longest of the belts depending on which school you came from. Like I came from a particularly hard school with a super hard instructor and I was at blue I think for like six or seven years. You know, it was terrible. But you end up being very good but the normal person doesn't have that type of...

Brendan Rice (19:42.898)
Yeah.

Nick Castiglia (19:52.654)
you know, will to like sit in a belt for like six or seven years, right? But that's not common anymore. But I think, I don't know, I think it's where the largest steps of learning is required. And yeah, I was just bringing that up to see if, if, if what if I had an explanation for why, why the death of the blue belt? So why are we losing so, so many of them, you know?

Brendan Rice (20:09.746)
Well...

Brendan Rice (20:17.922)
I don't have a personal experience explanation, but I can tell you one of the things that we've done as we built out our digital progression tracking system and some of the stuff even for CrossFit is we've studied the theory behind gamification a lot. And I'm not using the term gamification in any way kind of take away from the real learning and development that takes place through belt progressions, but...

Nick Castiglia (20:40.526)
Yeah.

Brendan Rice (20:47.09)
The science behind it lines up with what you're saying, which is when the milestones and the progress become so spaced out and long -term, it's harder for people to stay committed. So I think even if you spend six years in a blue belt, go study that level at your gym and say, what are the intermediary milestones I'm setting up for my clients? Whether that's a committed club when you come 12 times a month and you put their name up on the wall and they get that, you know.

Nick Castiglia (21:03.766)
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.

Brendan Rice (21:16.338)
hit of dopamine and that reward, whether it's with our digital progression tracking system, you could set up your belts, but you could have however many trackers underneath those. So you could have attendance app belt, you could have manual trackers to track technique progress. There's ways for instructors to give feedback in the app on a daily or weekly or monthly basis or whatever it is. So to me, the solution to that is just kind of going back to engagement. Give those people a...

a roadmap for six years to follow and know whether they're winning, continually get feedback and continually show them like you are on track. There's something similar in CrossFit, which is, you know, competitive athletes, after a while, it becomes a lot harder to hit PRs. Like once you train, your first year, you might hit a PR every other week when you're doing weightlifting movements, you're getting so much better, but then it becomes a lot harder to hit those. And so it becomes really important to

meticulously track your performance and your technique. So if coaches take videos and pictures of your technique and comment on them and keep tracking that progress, you can see whether you're close to hitting a PR, whether you're slightly over. And so I think that's the only takeaway for me is just lean even more heavily into this idea of engaging with those folks to make sure they stay committed for that journey.

Nick Castiglia (22:42.766)
You use the word gamification.

You're like gamifying, you know, and can you just like elaborate, you know, just, I know, I know you talked about, well, you know, setting up the milestones, understanding that, well, like explain that a little bit more, explain the gamifying a little bit more. I'm interested in this. I want to know more about this.

Brendan Rice (22:50.898)
Yeah.

Brendan Rice (23:09.49)
Yeah, absolutely. So gamification, I wish I could remember some of the... I did a presentation at the... I think it was the martial arts super show two or three years ago on this. So the philosophies are really interesting, but gamification is a very scientifically proven theory that when you provide people with a reward system and a structured way to achieve those rewards,

their engagement skyrockets. I think it's got a bit of a bad rap from things like Candy Crush and apps that people get addicted to and they can't stop playing them. But in the business world, there's awesome examples all over the business world of where can you implement levels, badges, a reward system, and then clear ways for people to achieve that reward system and things like scores. And so...

Nick Castiglia (23:41.006)
Thank you.

Thank you.

Nick Castiglia (23:47.918)
Thank you.

Brendan Rice (24:09.594)
Our digital progression tracking system doesn't replace the physical belt or anything, but it supplements that and it lets people, when they sign into class, they see their little icon next to their name with their level. They can see it in the app. The instructors can see it. They can see in their app when they look at it where they're at with all their progress and what they still need to achieve. And so again, the science is like, it's not a theory I have. It's very proven that that...

Nick Castiglia (24:16.59)
Mm -hmm.

Nick Castiglia (24:37.87)
Thank you.

Brendan Rice (24:39.666)
drives behavior and will increase whatever behavior you are trying to drive. So the same reason, going back to the attendance example, we have a CrossFit gym that started, they call it Committed Club. Quite a few gyms are doing this now, where they have, I think their number is 15 or 16 a month. And they, anyone who last month showed up at least 15 times gets their name on a wall and gets, I think, some like small prize.

Nick Castiglia (24:40.91)
Thank you.

Nick Castiglia (24:54.07)
Thank you.

Nick Castiglia (25:03.094)
Thank you.

Brendan Rice (25:08.722)
And that's just one micro example of gamification. And the behavior that they're motivating and driving is class attendance. With level progressions, you can drive attendance, technique mastery, attending different types of classes. There's all sorts of stuff. But the idea is, at a basic level, provide the milestones and the achievements for people to want to engage in those activities.

Nick Castiglia (25:32.238)
Yeah, I find this super interesting and this is actually what I'm working on right now with my kids program. And it was something that was taught to me a long time ago. I think was used by many schools a long time ago and dropped by the wayside and I'm bringing it back to really help us continue to grow our children's program. So thanks for the explanation.

Brendan Rice (25:59.314)
Yeah. Well, and just one other comment on that. I think it can be applied to even your internal business operations. So a feature we released last year is Task Management. So you can create and assign tasks to front desk staff, instructors, admins in order to do things like follow up with leads, check in with clients, clean the mats, take out the trash, all that stuff. And...

Nick Castiglia (26:27.126)
Yeah Yes

Brendan Rice (26:28.05)
The ability, the simple ability to have a task that you get a check off and you see a little green success like, good job, you completed this task, it's off your to -do list, drives behavior better than a laminated piece of paper on the wall that says after every class, do these things. And so that's just been interesting to watch too. People are like, my coaches are doing these things more because they have this actual thing they need to click on their phone or on the computer to check off that they did it.

Nick Castiglia (26:54.798)
So, Wotify is even helping people on the business management side from that perspective as well, like with that, like that exact thing you just said, where you're talking about the gamifying. Wow, I didn't know that. That's, that's, that's wild. That's amazing. Okay, back to instead of my wonder. Yeah, my wonder and joy of all the cool things you're saying.

Brendan Rice (27:17.106)
Back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Nick Castiglia (27:24.59)
What would you say are some of the most important, you shared some already. How engaged are your students? The 11 times per month. You talked a little bit about how Wattify is setting itself apart in the martial arts industry because it's just an amazing retention platform. Is there any other like,

amazing pieces of data that you could share with us that you've collected from martial arts schools that are above and beyond. I personally think the 11 times per month and getting your clients more engaged has the ability to double their length of engagement. Those for me are one in two. Is there another two that you could give us that you could say, you know what, Nick, on top of those two, I would definitely say here's the next.

you know, here's number three and here's number four from the data.

Brendan Rice (28:28.978)
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So we're constantly kind of reevaluating this and analyzing our data with different segments to try to find insights. But the two right now that I can think of most relevant for martial arts schools, the first one is related to that progression, digital progressions I was just talking about. So we looked at Jiu -Jitsu schools that are using digital progression tracking and ones that aren't. And the stat we found is that the average

monthly value of their clients when they're using digital progressions is $21 a month higher than if you're not, which doesn't sound super significant, but if you think about it, that's $250 per year per client, and $21 a month is the difference of a new tool, a new piece of software, a new piece of equipment. And when I think about, well, why is that the case? There's some...

correlation and causation, but what they're doing at those schools is they're providing a higher level product to their customers. They're saying, when you sign up for our school, you get all of these things, you get the best instructors, we have clean facilities, we have a class schedule that's really robust, and you get a way to track your progress using digital tools. So it lines up, like that justifies a higher cost than...

going to a school that doesn't offer that. So that's one. You look like you have a question. You want me to jump into the next one?

Nick Castiglia (29:57.582)
you

Yeah, yeah, no, wait, you're I think you're downplaying it quite a bit because you're like, $21 a month, that's $250. Well, you know, like, if we're talking about a gym, you know, that has, you know, 500 students, you know, like, times 250. You know, like, that's, that's pretty,

Brendan Rice (30:19.314)
Yeah, 150, yeah, 500, then that's a lot. 10 ,000 bucks a month.

Nick Castiglia (30:30.862)
significant, right? Like 500 times 21, like, yeah, that's $10 ,000 a month. That's

Like we're talking about $125 ,000 a year. Like, you know, I think you're downplaying it a little bit as well. And I think another point to say is that like, that's not the only benefit. Like I find we're so, you know, and I get mad at other school owners because they're so attached to the dollar, right? Like, you know, well, you know, like for instance, like, it's only $21 a month.

like, yeah, but if you have 500 students, $10 ,000, and that's $125 ,000 a year. And the other point you didn't mention is like, if you're doing all of these things, you're probably doubling the length of engagement of this person anyways. So, you know, you know, so, so instead, so it's not $21. It's we're talking about the possibility of like a $200 ,000.

Brendan Rice (31:11.89)
Yeah.

Brendan Rice (31:20.882)
Yeah, it all definitely connects.

Nick Castiglia (31:35.502)
difference, you know, like in the long term of things. So that's where I just wanted to expand on that point because I'm like processing what you're saying. I'm like calculating. I'm thinking about what you're saying. I'm like, man, this is a pretty important point. And then, sorry, I, and I interjected myself there.

Brendan Rice (31:50.61)
Well, no, that just made me think. The other thing that's been really cool to see happening, and this is what makes me feel just good about what we do every day at Spotify and when we sign up new customers, is a lot of customers, when they sign up for Spotify, the transition with any software is not easy. You're going to have to recollect some payment methods, you're going to have to manage staff training. But one thing a lot of our customers do is they increase their...

their membership pricing across the board. And they do it in a way where they, it's not like, hey, another year we're increasing. It's, hey, we've invested in new technology for you. Here are the specific benefits you get that you didn't have before with our old billing system. Like you get access to videos, you get to track your belt levels digitally, you get this, this, this, and they increase it by 20 or 30 bucks a month and their clients are usually very happy with that. They're like, awesome, you're adding value to my membership. So that's a good way.

a practical way to do that. If people are thinking like, okay, but how would I actually get that $21 a month? Like if you join Wodify, it's a really good time to increase pricing and let your students know here's what you're getting specifically in exchange for that.

Nick Castiglia (33:04.302)
Awesome. All right, point four, give it to us. The next point.

Brendan Rice (33:09.97)
Yeah, so point four, we talk a lot about our data, but also how gym owners use data to make good decisions. And so one of our features is called custom reporting, and it lets you set up using any data in our system, any report you want. And so it lets gym owners run their business with whatever kind of North Star metrics they have.

and it lets them stay close to the numbers in order to make decisions. One thing we looked at is what do the customers who use custom reporting look like compared to other customers? In custom reporting, how most customers will use it is they'll go set up exactly what they want to look for each week or each month, and then you can set up subscriptions. Maybe you or all your admins get emailed that report every week or every day or every month, and then you have maybe a meeting to decide what you should do about it. What we found is,

Gym owners that are actively using custom reporting compared to gym owners who aren't are doing $13 ,000 a month on average in more revenue. And so again, there's maybe some correlation and causation there, but what that tells me is without a doubt, gym owners who are actively tied into business metrics and really thoughtfully thinking about what they want to measure and doing things like setting up automated subscriptions are in...

Compared to averages, are probably twice the size of other gym owners in terms of top line revenue.

Nick Castiglia (34:39.566)
That's $156 ,000 more a year.

Brendan Rice (34:45.042)
Yeah, and that one, I mean, again, I'll try to like make sure I'm being clear on this. If you start using custom reporting, you're not going to immediately start doing $13 ,000 a month or more. But if you want to level up your sophistication as a business owner, start making the decisions based on data and driving your business to be more successful, you should be using features like that.

Nick Castiglia (35:05.39)
Yeah, this is like one of the mainstays like in legacy, you know, where we're teaching people and we review it monthly. And I just started working with a gym recently in the last four months. And the only thing, it's not the only thing, but the major thing that they put their focus on, they got this one owner and he's like, absolutely merciless to everybody.

including his partners and staff. But I said, listen, this is what you need to do. You need to track your metrics. Here's all the metrics you need to track. These guys have gone up like over the course of four months. Like it's it's been wild, like a 13 or $14 ,000 increase by the nature of doing very little else than doubling down.

Brendan Rice (35:59.026)
There you go, yeah.

Nick Castiglia (36:03.566)
on their numbers because what happens when you start checking your metrics? All of a sudden you start holding everybody accountable more because you wanna see, well, how many leads have come in? How many appointments have happened? How many of the appointments have converted to memberships? Well, we had three people in last night. Why did only one sign up? Why didn't two sign up? And then that redirects everybody's focus.

to being more on top of things as opposed to just being like 90 % of martial arts schools are, like just an absolute gong show, walking around, not caring, not monitoring anything. So that's wild that that's the number. That's like $13 ,000. That is insane that that's the number of just following your metrics.

Like it's blowing my mind.

Brendan Rice (37:03.09)
Well, yeah, I mean, by default, every gym owner is probably going to see their revenue. They'll see what money comes into their bank account. The problem with that approach is that's not the leading indicator. You can't do anything with that. But when you look at leads or appointments or retention or class attendance, those are the things you can actually impact, which are going to increase your revenue. And so the other thing I would encourage is part of it, depending on your business. But the more you can share with

every level of employee you have, I think the better. So I'll speak to our business. So at Wotify, we share our entire P &L with our entire employee base every month. And so rather than just going to your instructors and saying, all right, last week we had a really bad week in leads, let's try better, like actually share the data with them. And you'll be surprised at how they start making little micro decisions and changing their approach if they know.

if they just see the numbers and are bought into improving them.

Nick Castiglia (38:04.43)
Do you think this is the exact same concept that you're talking about like with the students, like the students having more energy into the brand, more, you know, building more overlap with the students. Do you think this is the exact same thing we're seeing with the staff from what you're saying that like the more you're bringing the staff in, the more energy you're putting into them just by the nature of showing them and saying, guys,

these are the numbers we're working with here. Is that exactly what you're saying?

Brendan Rice (38:39.73)
I think there's some similarities for sure. I think the difference is with students, we're talking a lot about engagement and gamification, ways to give them more value. With staff and this idea of sharing metrics, I think it's more about getting everyone aligned to what the goals of the business are. So it would be like if you were training a student and you didn't tell them what they were training for and you just said, you know, roll harder.

With your staff, if you don't show them the metrics, they don't really know what they're working towards. And so I think that's the big thing with sharing metrics is just making sure people know how you're doing and how their work contributes to that and everyone having a pulse on the business. And you'll just be surprised at the ideas that they come up with or the ways they change their behavior.

Nick Castiglia (39:32.75)
Yeah, awesome. This is, yeah. This podcast blowing my mind, Brendan. It's blowing my mind right now.

Brendan Rice (39:38.738)
Well, and it always interests, like, I think a lot of people are hesitant to do that because they think, I don't know, maybe they're worried if their staff sees all the business metrics, they'll either be worried because the business isn't doing great. Maybe they're just a little self -conscious or they hold those numbers close. But like, I've never seen an instance where a business owner shared those metrics and then come back and been like, that was a mistake. I wish we hadn't done that. Like, literally, I've never seen it happen.

Nick Castiglia (40:07.214)
Yeah, I think, I think for the martial arts schools that are doing well, they're like afraid because it, you know, a lot of people only look at like the monthly gross, right? It's like, you're doing $50 ,000 a month monthly gross, you know, and then, I think owners are afraid like all their staff are going to start asking for raises or something like that. You know, I think that's a legitimate here, but you and I both know that like running any business, there's a,

the monthly gross does not directly coincide with the monthly profit. There's expenses and all those things that fall in line with it as well. Okay, so we always ask this more towards the end. And I think you've kind of touched on this and you might repeat some of the things that you've cited already. But we always ask,

Brendan Rice (40:44.786)
Yeah.

Nick Castiglia (41:07.022)
What are your top three pieces of advice for martial arts school owners? And you know, we interview different people. We have different people on the podcast. We have successful school owners. You know, we have industry experts like yourself. But what are your top three pieces of advice for martial arts school owners?

Brendan Rice (41:30.034)
Yeah, I'll try to, I mean, the concepts are very similar to what we've talked about. I'll try to frame it in different ways, so it's more of advice. So the first one is related to this idea of retention, attendance trends, some of that stuff. So the advice is find a system that you think works for you, but invest more time in the people you need to be, the students you need to be investing them in, not the students you want to be investing them in.

And so what I mean by that is it can be very tempting to spend time talking to, calling, following up, spending time with after class, the students who are never gonna leave your business. Because you're probably friends with them, they probably are really engaged, and it's just easier to do. And go out of your way to call, talk to in person, and spend more time engaging with the people who aren't as engaged. Because that's what's gonna move the needle with retention.

Nick Castiglia (42:10.638)
Brendan Rice (42:28.306)
So that's the first one is just go find the clients and the groups you should be investing your time in, not the ones you want to. The second piece of advice, I think covers a lot of what we talked about. I might have mentioned this on the webinar as well, but technology, whether it's Spotify or something else, does have the power to help you run a more profitable and efficient business. And...

Nick Castiglia (42:28.846)
Thank you.

Brendan Rice (42:56.146)
I would encourage everyone to first audit your tech stack, look at all the different tools you use, calculate the ROI of those tools, and make sure they're smart investments. And then spend time learning those tools the same way you learn techniques that you enjoy. And so that could be blocking time over the weekend to watch a webinar or configure a new feature. But the...

Nick Castiglia (42:59.63)
Thank you.

Nick Castiglia (43:11.982)
Thank you.

Brendan Rice (43:23.186)
the correlation we see of feature adoption and utilization of our software and successful business is just, it's crystal clear. So again, Wotify, not Wotify, whatever you're using, go out of your way to invest in learning your software. And then the last one I'll throw in is related to this new feature we just released at the beginning of this year. It's called Wotify Workflows and it helps with actually...

Nick Castiglia (43:24.27)
Thanks for watching.

Nick Castiglia (43:31.37)
Thank you.

Brendan Rice (43:49.778)
a lot of stuff. You can create any custom business process and use triggers and actions, but it really helps with lead nurturing. And my advice is answer your phone and follow up with leads as fast as you can. So it's crazy. I think I've heard you talk about this before too. Like it's crazy how sometimes inefficient the lead follow up process is.

And as we were building that feature, we did a lot of research, and there's a lot of very well -researched and published studies related to this. But my favorite stat is that when it takes you 24 or more hours to follow up with the lead compared to within the first hour, you're 60 times more likely to qualify it when it's within the first hour. Ideally, it's within 60 seconds. I don't know, immediately. So some of the workflows we've set up and created are...

designed to have if you don't answer the phone, because that's ideal, depending on your lead intake process. Maybe a phone number, maybe chat, whatever it is. If it's not immediate, it should be within 10 minutes, five minutes. The faster that number, the better. And I think that's my last piece of advice is just nail your lead nurture because it's, yeah.

Nick Castiglia (45:00.59)
I have one question tying back to that. And yes, I do absolutely hammer people on the phone. I have an instructional on BJJ Fanatics called Bulletproof Phone Systems, because I believe in the phone that much. How many times should you call?

Brendan Rice (45:22.994)
Yeah.

Nick Castiglia (45:30.19)
a potential lead back until you give up? I get this question all.

Brendan Rice (45:35.058)
Yeah, I think I don't know from running my own school, but we did a lot of research and worked with some of our best gym owners to create using this workflow tools. We create pre -built what we call recipes. So our lead nurture recipe, which if you use Spotify, you can install it in one click, and it's all set up with tasks to call them and follow up. Let me get the exact number. I think it's something.

Now I'm just curious, so I'll pull it up for you. How many times should you call your lead?

Brendan Rice (46:20.914)
All right, lead launch pad.

Brendan Rice (46:28.274)
So...

Brendan Rice (46:32.402)
Generally speaking, between when you first talk to them or when they first come in as a lead and when you disqualify them, should be somewhere between 10 and 15 contacts. That could be calls, texts, something. But that should definitely be front -loaded. So you should try to get in touch with them as soon as possible within the first day, two days, three days. But then there should be this long tail of...

Nick Castiglia (46:47.246)
Wow.

Brendan Rice (47:01.458)
less frequent contacts. And that's the most difficult one to manage without technology. I was talking to one of our customers who set up this lead workflow and he was like, you know, one of the biggest differences, he was like, I got a task the other day that was automatically created and was called this lead. And it was from maybe like three weeks earlier. And he's like, I actually called them and they happened to be ready then and they came in and they're a member now. And he's like, without these automations,

There's no way in a million years what I've called it. He was like, before I was actually okay at quick follow -up, but I would never have reached out to someone who is three weeks old because I would have moved on. I just get so busy. And so one of the things that, yeah, that's one of the things we noticed the most with these workflows and Lead Nurture Automation is it lets you have that long tail of contact, whether it's automated or calling them, that is really hard to manage without technology.

Nick Castiglia (47:52.59)
Yeah, we have automations at our schools. However, I am on the staff and the number we were going by was like seven times, like attempt a minimum of seven times before giving up. Well, Brendan, thanks to you, that number has now jumped to 15 times because they...

Brendan Rice (48:12.786)
There you go. You got to keep up. Well, and with workflows, it probably takes Wotify customers less time to make 15 contacts than it does to make seven with some other processes or systems. So we automate a lot of it, but we don't automate everything because that can also be a mistake. So we automate a lot of it and we create the most important manual touch points. And we found it to work really well. And with our workflow system, you can customize anything. So if you're like, well, actually, I want to...

Nick Castiglia (48:22.926)
That's right.

Nick Castiglia (48:40.398)
Thank you.

Brendan Rice (48:41.586)
do everything manual, I just want the task to be created. It's really easy to do that.

Nick Castiglia (48:45.326)
Okay, I have another question. Sorry before I get to my last Series I want to ask you You said you know sometimes can be bad if everything's automated because you know I have had clients who are like I'm just gonna automate everything I'm like Listen to me like people don't love that either. I find there needs to be a blend of automation, you know because I

I agree with you, you know, let's, let's lean, let's lean into the technology. But I believe the real like, way for school owners to hit the next level is it has to be a blend, you know, like, and almost like the technology seems like it's from a human, but there's also that human interaction as well. Like the phone calls, like the messages of the person reaching out. You're a CEO of a million, maybe billion dollar company.

why don't you, yeah. Well, why don't you give me your take on that? Like what's your, what's your data saying regarding that?

Brendan Rice (49:45.778)
Somewhere in between.

Brendan Rice (49:56.562)
Yeah, I think the way you provided that kind of nuance to it is exactly how we think about it. And it's hard to, I don't have a statistic to prove this because it's, we could try to find one, but the value of a single human to human conversation, whether it's on the phone or in person, I don't think will ever be replaced from any number of automated text messages or anything. And so, so,

Nick Castiglia (50:22.638)
I agree.

Brendan Rice (50:26.258)
I don't have the statistics, but I definitely have the anecdotes to back it up. And like an example is we have a workflow that will trigger when people have been predicted by our algorithm to potentially cancel. And so we alert you before they cancel that they are likely to cancel based on a very complex machine learning algorithm. So attendance weighs into it, but all these other factors weigh into it, like they haven't shown up to a class with the people they usually show up to class with recently, things like that.

And we create a... When we first developed it, we were like, we could send an email to that person and say something like, hey, you've been dropping off, come back into class, like some promo or something. And instead, what we did is we created a task for the gym owner or a coach that they frequently attend with to give them a call. And one of our customers the other day was sharing how it's been working for them. And they actually did some math and they were like, it saved us, like, you know.

tens of thousands of dollars a year. But the story they shared was they called a client who had been at the gym for a long time and they just said, like, hey, what's up? And they had had a family member pass away. They hadn't been in the gym for a while. And that is just a really clear example of why you can't automate everything. You'll never come up with an automation that can handle that conversation.

Nick Castiglia (51:43.182)
That's right, yeah.

Nick Castiglia (51:48.878)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm happy you touched on that. I've lived through similar things like in my own school and my headquarters school. And, you know, as an owner and an instructor that cares about their students, you know, when you face those unfortunate incidences that like inevitably happen in people's lives, you're always grateful, and they're always grateful that you reached out to them.

and you call them to check up on them and they could share with you and you can do your best to say, hey, we're here for you. We care about you. If you need anything, let us know. And I think also that's super valuable, super valuable point. Okay.

Brendan Rice (52:35.506)
Well, and the last point is just like for most people listening, your business, you should try to make more efficient through technology and automations. But if you take a step back and you look at these businesses, say you have somewhere between 150 and 500 students, it is very feasible for you to talk to every single one of them. It's not like you have 100 ,000 or a million students. And so...

Nick Castiglia (53:04.782)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Brendan Rice (53:05.33)
this idea of it sounds kind of overwhelming, but do 15 calls a day, and you'll get through it. You just got to start somewhere.

Nick Castiglia (53:17.134)
Yeah. So when I had studied under this one group and you know, I think us as GM owners and I'm always trying to learn, I'm always looking at different business coaches and different consultants and trying to learn, you know, like just like the questions I'm asking from you, I got like a page full of notes here, not just questions to ask you, but valuable things that you've said that I want to take in, you know, changing my business. And,

This organization boasts like we have the most millionaires of any consulting agency. And one of the most interesting things that I had found is like at this like one time of year, the owner sits down and if you got 500 students, you got 300 students, you got 200 students.

you sit down, you pick up the phone and you call until you get ahold of everybody. And you're doing, if you got to do 50 calls a day or 25 calls a day or whatnot, but it is as simple as you said. And you just pick up the phone, you get through everybody, probably take you a month to do it, especially if you have like 500 students, maybe take you a month. But what's the value in that? You know, like it could be absolutely like,

Brendan Rice (54:18.482)
Yeah.

Nick Castiglia (54:42.574)
transformative for your business as well. And I think that's super valuable that you said that. Okay, last thing. Sorry.

Brendan Rice (54:49.042)
Yeah, there's a lot. Sorry, just the last comment for anyone on the fence about doing that. If you're thinking like, my retention is pretty good, I don't need to do that. Just off the top of my head, the three things you can get are better retention, really good feedback on your business. They might share something that you don't already have and word of mouth referrals because people are going to be like, wow, they called me today. Let me tell my friend about that. So there's a lot more than just retention. There's an infinite amount of that. That's why I still get on the phone with some of our customers too. It's like...

Nick Castiglia (55:05.262)
Mm -hmm.

Brendan Rice (55:18.546)
You know, you just, there's never a, it's never a waste of time when you're talking to your paying clients.

Nick Castiglia (55:26.83)
Yeah. Okay, last thing, last, last question there here. So this is not, you know, I know a lot of people hear this question and they think it's a mirror of the question before, but it, but it's not. What are the three biggest mistakes or oversights? Do you think martial arts school owners are making? Again, it doesn't have to, you know, be the mirror of

of the four big points that you had said already that we had covered, but I'm sure there's things that you see differently from your lens, given the data that you have for martial arts schools. What are the three biggest mistakes or oversights that you think martial arts school owners are making in the industry?

Brendan Rice (56:16.05)
Yeah, I think there's definitely parallels to what I was just saying. But I think the first one related to numbers is not operating their business from a metrics -first mindset. And that can be reading a P &L, it can be understanding what

the key value drivers are for your business. So the difference between, I think, the advice and that mistake is, the advice is, use customer reporting math. The mistake is you don't actually know whether you're profitable. You don't actually know where the problem is in your business. Is it lead conversion or is it retention? So without understanding those metrics of your business, you're flying blind completely. So I think the first mistake is you just have to, if you're going to be a business owner,

Nick Castiglia (56:55.714)
Thank you.

Nick Castiglia (57:15.118)
Brendan, it is one of the most challenging things sometimes when we have new clients sign on. It's one of the hardest things to get them to get behind sometimes, believe it or not, is getting them behind tracking and wanting to. And I've told people like, this is the secret.

Brendan Rice (57:15.73)
You have to understand all of those numbers. That's part of your job.

Nick Castiglia (57:44.11)
This is like, here it is, you know, here is the secret to being successful. And you've just said it today. Like on average, the businesses that are tracking their metrics are showing a $13 ,000 a month higher than other people. Like there it is guys. If you needed the nugget of knowledge of an extra, you know, like $150 ,000 a year, you know, there's one of them. So, so that's, that's a, the first biggest mistake.

What would you say is the second biggest mistake or oversight?

Brendan Rice (58:16.242)
Yeah, I think the second is a resistance to change or evolving your own business. I think some times gym owners will make a change because they kind of have to. Like, they're like, if I don't do this, I'm going to go out of business. And they don't force themselves to evolve and change when things are OK. And that's really dangerous. So.

Nick Castiglia (58:33.054)
you

Brendan Rice (58:42.514)
That can be things like changing your software. That's the one we encounter a lot. But it can also be things like changing the way you manage curriculum and instruction. One of the gems we worked with from a year or two ago was very hesitant. They wanted to switch to Spotify. They wanted to use a bunch of features, but they were like, I don't really want to add videos to daily curriculum because I like my instructors to come in and be able to do whatever they want. I'm worried I'll lose some instructors if they don't do that.

eventually they ripped the bandaid off, they did it, and it was the best thing they ever did for their business. They were like, the instructors got behind it, it's so much better for the students. And so there's a, yeah, I think change management's difficult in any business or situation, but it's specifically in that gray area. If you're doing okay, so nothing's forcing your hand, but having a mentality of continued improvement and innovation and change is what's going to keep you successful long -term.

Nick Castiglia (59:35.662)
Okay, so resistance to change. I'm definitely, I'm one of those guys, not resistant to change, but resistant to tech, because I'm not a super techie guy. So it takes a long time for me to learn how to use new things and understand them and become good at using them. Okay, so last point.

three biggest mistakes, oversights that you find school owners make.

Brendan Rice (01:00:11.058)
Yeah, the third one is definitely not using what? No, I'm just kidding. No, I think the third one is the third one that I haven't talked about already because some of them I think were weaved into the last conversation is thinking about all of your expenses as investments that should have a positive ROI and grow your business. So I talked to a lot of gym owners who think about how they can keep their costs as low as possible. And when I think about the successful ones I talked to,

Nick Castiglia (01:00:15.758)
Bye.

Nick Castiglia (01:00:36.27)
Thank you.

Brendan Rice (01:00:41.01)
They think about the money they're investing in technology, equipment, the facilities as investments that are going to grow their revenue and grow their profit. And so minimizing costs and expenses is a dangerous race to the bottom. But you have to be smart about, like the goal is not to maximize expenses, the goal is to get a positive ROI and make smart investments. And so...

Nick Castiglia (01:00:47.694)
Thank you.

Nick Castiglia (01:01:05.662)
now.

Brendan Rice (01:01:08.146)
Like, I'll use Wotify as an example without being super salesy, but Wotify is one of the most expensive softwares on the market. And we are proud and stand behind that 100%. Because we are going, and we do case studies on this, like we have the math to back up when you invest in Wotify, you will have a multiple, not just make your money back, you will grow your business by multiples of what the incremental cost is.

Nick Castiglia (01:01:35.918)
Yeah, and I feel like some people are so short sighted in that, you know, where it's like saying like, well, you know, for instance, okay, you basically gave me two things today, you know, that are worth quarter million dollars. Okay. You know, one, you're like, if you, for the people that get in this, you know, digital platform, so on and so forth, you're going to make $125 ,000 more. And you know, people who use our software,

On average, charge $21 more, which also equates into approximately, you know, the 125 to $140 ,000 a year. That's a quarter million dollars. You know, if I got to give you $5 ,000, you know, or $6 ,000 a year, but I get a quarter million dollars back, like I find people just don't look at it this way, you know, like, like a,

Another thing I argue with clients all the time and I'm huge on like taking care of our staff and our managers and our managers on bonuses. I want our managers to get the bonuses. Okay. I want them to make the extra thousand or extra $2 ,000 a month without having to work any more hours. Okay. Because if they're making, if they're making the gym an extra

$10 ,000 a month, but you have to give them 1000 or $2 ,000. But that's $10 ,000 you didn't have, you know what I mean? But I find so many people are so short sighted. It's like saying like, Hey, well, will you give away two to get an extra eight? Like, why would you do that? You know, and I think I think you just nailed it there. Is there anything you want to say? In closing, Brendan, like,

Brendan Rice (01:03:13.426)
Yeah.

Nick Castiglia (01:03:33.614)
How can people get in touch with you if they want a demo of the software? If they're interested in getting signed up with Wattify, how do they reach out to you if they have questions? Give us your deets.

Brendan Rice (01:03:46.738)
Yeah, of course. So if you're not already using Wotify, please check us out, wotify .com, and you can book a demo. And our demos are designed to be very low pressure, learn about your business. And if we're not a good fit, we'll tell you. So get on the phone with us and give us a chance to talk about these in more depth with you and hopefully provide you some value whether or not you sign up for us. Our demos follow a similar format to this conversation. They're data -led. We share industry insights that we hope can help you.

And then we're at a bunch of upcoming events this summer. So if you see us at martial arts competitions or anywhere else, come up and say hi. And then if you have any questions for me specifically, my email is just Brendan at wotify .com. So always happy to connect with people directly.

Nick Castiglia (01:04:31.31)
And guys, because I know a lot of the people who watch the podcast are in Canada, Legacy, Martial Arts Consulting, School Owners Summit in July, Wattify is going to be there dropping some knowledge and be able to showcase their software for you. Something else you didn't mention, and I will do a little plug here before we sign off, is you also offer a free version of your software as well. Why don't you?

I know I'm going all over the place. I was ready to wrap it up, but I just remembered the free version here. So before we go, why don't you just touch on that just for like, you know, a minute or two, like tell us about the free version that people can get if they're interested or they want to try it or see if it works for them.

Brendan Rice (01:05:02.29)
You're good.

Brendan Rice (01:05:16.626)
Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. So the insight that we had was actually born out of a feature we created to allow school owners to pass on processing fees. And what we realized is there's two costs with your software, processing fees and monthly subscription. Processing fees are kind of the hidden costs that you don't see comes out of your top line revenue. In a lot of cases for bigger schools, it's more than the monthly subscription cost of your software. So the first thing is we created a way for,

that fee to be passed along to students. And then we took it one step further and lowered the barrier of entry completely to our software and said, you can get everything, all of our features, unlimited users, unlimited staff, everything for free. And we'll just pass on a fee that includes the cost and the processing fee. And so we didn't replace our other pricing model because some businesses that isn't.

kind of what they want to do. It's not their business model, but a lot of other industries have proven out that model of changing the dynamic of where the cost goes. And again, we provide value. So for Jim's switching, they turn that feature on. It's maybe a couple bucks, five to 10 bucks more a month for your students, comes out as a separate line item. And everyone who's come on board or switched to that model has not lost clients because of it. And that's a way to immediately add.

profit to your business. So it's available now for everyone. And again, we have the two different models, so whichever one suits you. And you can switch between them. But that's something that we have launched this year. We've gotten awesome feedback on. And we have a bunch of gems now using it.

Nick Castiglia (01:06:49.006)
Thank you.

Nick Castiglia (01:06:59.918)
Amazing, amazing. Guys, thank you, Brendan, for coming out and being on our podcast. You drop tons of great knowledge for everybody. I think, I know I got a lot out of it, so I know anybody who's watching, if they listened to this and took action, there's literally,

thousands of dollars of positive change that they can make inside their business. And that's what this podcast is all about. So on behalf of the Legacy Martial Arts Business Podcast, I just want to say thank you very much for being on with us today and sharing all your knowledge and I'll see you in July.

Brendan Rice (01:07:46.066)
Yeah, awesome. Thanks, Nick. Thanks for having me.

Nick Castiglia (01:07:49.71)
All right, signing off. See you on the next episode. I hit the unrecord there, love.