The Legacy Martial Arts Business Podcast

Nick Castiglia (00:02.826)
All right guys, Nick Castiglia here, Legacy Martial Arts Business Podcast with my great friend, Dan Moroney, a bravado BJJ. How you doing Danny?

Dan (00:16.576)
We're recovering from an amazing weekend. We had a big tournament on the weekend, our GTA Classic, very successful, 800 competitors. It was a long day, worth every second of it.

Nick Castiglia (00:32.012)
Yeah, before we get started, I usually talk about how we met. And I don't remember the first time we met officially. think it was like, might have been at a tournament. I think it was the first time we met.

Dan (00:49.92)
Yeah, we bumped into the tournament. Again, those were like the arcade days of GSD tournaments. know my organization I with before, it coming to many tournaments. They were doing a lot of tournaments in the States. So I think as things turned, I started seeing more of you guys around. So that's how I got to bump into you on a couple of occasions along with you and a of the other guys.

Yeah, she's good.

Nick Castiglia (01:19.808)
Yeah, yeah, I think it's been like, I think I met you like over a decade. It's been over a decade now. I'm confident it's been over a

Dan (01:29.344)
2009, 2010, maybe? I think so. This is your world backwards.

Nick Castiglia (01:34.506)
Yeah, that's yeah, it's been a while. It's been a while. So so so when we when we get the podcast started, we always talk about like kind of like the origin story, like how did you get started in Jiu Jitsu? Like and I know you've shared it with me personally, but I'd like to share it. I'd like you to share with everybody else here because you have an amazing story, especially being one of the pioneers, you know, in Ontario and Canada. So so what got you started in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu?

Dan (01:38.09)
Yeah.

Dan (02:04.032)
Actually, well, was my brother actually, and my brother actually was at the time saw an article in a magazine, he was reading the articles about these Brazilians that were like anacondas and doing all this crazy stuff and in California they were creating this buzz and my brother was actually like doled into that. So he was training with a bunch of guys in Montreal.

He was under the name of Nigel, who still teaches to this day. And he was training with also a named Mike. And Mike was actually flying back and forth. was actually training in Los Angeles. He was working there and was training at the Gracie Garage. He was actually with Hickson directly. So he would train a month in the garage, which was amazing. Fly back to Montreal and Mike had his whole living room matted.

Nick Castiglia (02:52.034)
Wow.

Dan (03:02.995)
And it was amazing because he had a TV and he built a special thing to protect the TV. It was basically like a wall map. And everyone would come and train. I'd like, this is cool, right? And we'd teach basic stuff and what was going on with My brother was there every day training with him. And then as my brother got better, the first week he would learn a technique. The second week, he'd start to get the hang of it. And then the third week...

He was starting to get the better of Mike and the fourth week he was tapping him and then Mike was going back to California. I'll, you know, I'll just go until because my brother was tapping him out. It's like, wait a minute, I'm the guy doing all the training here and I'm coming back. But the grace is, but he's gonna say, no, that's actually what you want. He wants someone to push you so that now you come back, train harder. And my brother was leagues ahead, including Mike. And so I started to get into the training and stuff. And this was in Montreal and I was there for a little bit and I moved.

to Toronto, and then my brother moved to Toronto a couple of months later. And that's when we started to build the Browthling Arts Academy, actually. It started in the basement, actually started in my parents' backyard. After destroying the grass in the backyard, my father was like, okay, you need to get out of that, you you're destroying the yard. Okay, we'll put you in the basement. And, you know, we had four or five people next to him, we had 20 people in the basement. And after a couple of times hitting,

Getting the support beam and creating a rock is, my dad's okay, you need to get out, you need to open up a place. And in 1993, that's when my brother opened up Grappling Arts Academy. it exploded because it was just at the time of UFC opened. So everyone was like, it was berserk. I remember one day when...

Nick Castiglia (04:46.294)
Yeah.

Nick Castiglia (04:50.178)
Like the first UFC was in 93, wasn't it?

Dan (04:54.24)
Yeah, I was in November 93. We opened up actually, think if I'm not mistaken in July or June or July, maybe a little bit later, my days can be off a little bit. It's been a long time ago. But like 40 people walked in the door the first week. We were like, look at data. This is insane. That's above the people that were already training. So like 60 people in the door the first week.

Nick Castiglia (05:11.979)
Shit.

Man, man, that's crazy. I did because like I remember at that age, I watched the first UFC with my father's 10 years old. And I said I wanted to do that. But at that time in Canada, like you didn't find a grappling school. like it's 1993, like is everybody like a blue belt? Like like what is it or is everybody white belts and one blue belt? Like like like what is it out at that time?

Dan (05:44.0)
So at the time, because there was no grading, was no, there was nothing really. So my brother was originally a black belt under Nigel, who was like, he was in Thai boxing, jiu -jitsu, grappling, judo, little bit everything. So was like his own style. So, which was fine. And he was a black belt. So just wore a black belt. But, know, never told anybody, hey, I'm a Brazilian black belt. That was never the case. We had a black belt and grappling, you know, so.

we had to start somewhere. So eventually we had to sort of build ourselves up. And actually my brother's standards were tough, super tough. Like I remember first time doing grading, my brother failed me. I was so upset. But you know what? He says, I'm going to hold you to a higher standard. I'm going to do that for everybody else. So it made me appreciate that, appreciate that kind of mentality. And it's like, look, if we want to be at the level,

as the Gracies are and the rest of the Jave community, which wasn't even around, we have to really push ourselves. And in those days, those were like the wildest days, like the selfie we were doing. I'm actually an amazing old man, I don't know why. Because we were doing some crazy stuff, fixing the walls daily and stuff like that. were being thrown into the walls.

people walking out sometimes with red ice bags and stuff like that, know, constant 24 seven. So it was, it was, it was a real special time because we had a lot of people coming in and know, the great sea challenge that the grace to do it. Well, we were doing those two people coming in right in the middle of the class and say, Hey, I want to fight you. And my brother's like, all right, my brother being a small guy, five foot five, you know, is it sure we'll do it right now. My brother say we'll fight him. like, fight me. I'm 220 pounds at the time. And then it's, know,

You know, I a kid, you I still looked pretty menacing, so they never even want to fight me. And my brother, a lot of times, actually took that abuse, you know. And later down in the years, I took over. I was sort of the mat enforcer. And, you know, you build all those challenges. They're fun. know, I kind of like, think back with pride about all those times that we proved ourselves and bought into...

Dan (07:57.248)
and got into it really, really good. And then we started to do the competitions. There were no competitions until 1996. And actually my brother wanted to, it started awful and I actually got into, I got into the news actually because he was banned. He was actually stopped by the Ontario Athletics Commission because it is an inspired, know, Chogues, all kinds of crazy stuff. you know, Souls and all these crazy graphic things.

and it got the eye of the Justice Commission and then they stopped it so but even that time we had so many people. I think we were about 150 people in the academy at the time which was amazing, you know? And I was like with zero business, real acumen, right? But just because we were riding that wave and we were just at the right place at the right time, so like things were good, you know, at that time but you know, like anything, you have to build on that.

Nick Castiglia (08:54.278)
So, OK, well, first of all, like I've known you a long time and never told me these stories. This is part of what I love about the the podcast, because everybody that I've had on, especially the people that I've known a long time, they always share some some gems of like history or martial arts history, Canadian martial arts history that I haven't heard, you know, and I never knew about this. I never. So like I have I have a question, you know, like.

Dan (08:59.135)
you

Nick Castiglia (09:23.52)
Because a lot of people, you know, have talked about sale over the years was like sale, just like one of these guys who was like just super talented and worked hard. And that's just what made him good. Like, have you ever met those guys like Mark, Mark, Mark holes? He's really like that. He's like super talented. And when he puts his mind to it, he's always like one of the best guys in the floor. No, my anything MMA, jujitsu, judo didn't matter was still like that.

Dan (09:53.856)
was a very good, he was a very sharp, guy. So when he had an idea, he really followed through it. And so his execution for this was like, hey, no one is doing this, let's get on it, right? So he was always into the martial arts. I mean, I was doing martial arts when I was seven. I did judo when I was seven years old. And that's my introduction to martial arts, but then I got into

We did Kung Fu and all that stuff, same thing as my brother. did Jigungo, basically is all Muay Thai, Kali, and everything. We were grappling. So we got into all that as well. And so again, we had a bit of a step up from that experience. But with my brother, because he was a small guy, so he had a lot to prove. So because was always that person in the group.

Nick Castiglia (10:29.642)
Everything, everything.

Dan (10:49.78)
that never shy away from a fight. My brother in high school was notorious for fights. And it's funny because my brother had a sense of justice. He was a person who's like, hey, that's not right. Don't do that. And that resonated with me a lot of what he did because we were six years apart. And being six years older than me, he showed a lot of that kind of mindset of, stick up to yourself, don't let anyone bully you and stuff.

I really, really admired that. Obviously, you he's my little brother. I looked up to him, you know, I mean, even to this day. So a lot of the things that he did, and it's funny because I was going to say Mark, Mark reminds me a lot of my brother and that kind of mindset where, he had to be the blue collar guy. Everything he had to do, he worked hard to get. It wasn't easy for him. Some things were good, but some things he had to, he was really challenged with. I think he was a very great instructor. He was a great practitioner.

Was he a Boucherat Chargé St. Gracie? No, of course not. He admitted that for the longest time. But he was a person who could really sit there and break things down and really teach it to somebody. I'm one of those, I'm one of those products of that. And a lot of people, because obviously there's a huge lineage behind my brother's teachings, not only here in Toronto, but in Montreal as well, he spent the last 20 years of his life, you know, building.

So, yeah.

Nick Castiglia (12:19.266)
Okay, so it's 1993. So when does bravado open?

Dan (12:25.824)
So, so actually, Provado opened actually in 2000. So obviously a little bit of a dark period for us. My brother, unfortunately, got into, he got divorced from his wife. And the fact that his wife was from Montreal, stayed in town as we grew up in, she decided one night to pick up and just take the kids and go. And so that was a very difficult time for my brother. My brother at the time,

Obviously the, you know, lawyers fees and all that stuff, that stuff was all big, huge money, know, thousands and thousands of dollars. So he took in two partners and unfortunately two partners were students. And unfortunately when you have taken partners and taken different mindsets, different approaches and stuff, and that actually went up to the demise of Grappling Arts Academy and it closed down. And then as it closed down, you know, it's funny because when it,

They weren't paying the rent, they weren't paying this and that, you know? So they were kind of not really doing their due diligence and taking care of the place. So I actually had to walk in there and actually basically tell everybody, drop everything, no one's touching nothing. You need to leave now and, you know, it's time to go. So a lot of them being students of my brothers and stuff, they'd know what was going on. Where these guys were saying, no, no, still no, no, no, and stuff. anyways, so, you know, able to salvage most of the stuff.

My brother had to go bankrupt sadly and had to sadly be a UPS driver in Montreal for two and a half years. But what people don't understand is that you'll do anything for your children. They're two beautiful daughters and he wanted to be close to them. So at the time myself, I didn't understand that. A lot of people thought that I took it really hard.

So my brother's like, look, know, the Reopening Academy starts something different, something like that. You can't call it Grappling Arts anymore because now it's bankrupt. So that's where bravado came in. bravado, everyone thinks there's a meaning, right? know, like false bravery, false bravery. No, it's actually, I took the two aspects of the jitsu from Japan and from Brazil. Bravado meaning brave in Portuguese, and do is way, so brave way.

Dan (14:46.314)
So that was the actual name that I had. And by enough, we only started talking to a bunch of my Brazilian friends and he goes, Bravado, nice name, I like it. I'm like, all right, if they like it, it sticks. So that's when I opened up and I had a bunch of old suits from the old rapping artists that came in. And it was small at the time. And at the time, I was a little gunshot.

Nick Castiglia (15:02.05)
you

Dan (15:14.496)
And I kept the academy small. had a full -time job at the time. And slowly, like, okay, I'm going to build this slow organically. I'm not going to push it. Literally at zero advertising, everything was word of mouth. And had maybe about 70, 60, 70 students, which I was okay with. I was paying the bills and I wasn't poor, but, you know, those were some mean times. But they're actually one of the best times because I really...

got to get into my own comfort, me being the main person. was in an 800 square foot facility. My closet was my office. And the women's change room was a kitchenette and a little bathroom, and that's their change room. But that's what it was, and everybody was cool with it. So we did a lot of great things then. And I'm actually pretty fond of it, I'm pretty fond of that.

Nick Castiglia (16:09.974)
Yeah. Yeah. I love hearing those stories, you know, those like humble beginnings. And I think like it really, you know, I don't know. I don't know. I don't want to say soul searching because you're not, you're not really looking, you know, it's, it's more like you find, you find a big piece of yourself when things are so simple, you know, and you're just like, this is

This is why, this is why I'm doing it because it's not about the money because I'm not making any money. You know what I mean? It's, it's, I got another job and literally why I'm there and why I'm doing this is because, you know, my heart's, you know, my heart's in it. I love what I do, you know, and, I have, I have a bunch of like clients that start with me at this place and like,

Dan (16:47.072)
visits.

Nick Castiglia (17:10.068)
I am so happy to work with these people because you know, and we talk about this a lot, like privately about like the morals and values being aligned, you know, and these people are doing it. They're doing it for the right reason. They're doing it because they love jujitsu. They're doing it because they want to see people get the same benefits that they got, from jujitsu. They want to empower others as well. You know, like

Elio would say like Elio or Carlos senior would say like, you know, to make the week strong, you know. So okay, so, you know, it's it did you say it's 2000 2000 or 2003?

Dan (17:45.536)
this.

Dan (17:54.08)
I know it was in 2000 and at that time I was a brown belt. I was a brown belt at the time. So a little fast forward in July of 2001. So I actually went to Brazil in 98 to go train in Brazil. there for, I was supposed to stay six months. That didn't happen, it was too expensive. And okay, we'll do three months. And so I actually went upstate just a little over two months. I trained every day and got my butt whooped.

Nick Castiglia (17:58.154)
Okay.

Dan (18:24.352)
Got tough fast. I thought it was tough and then I got there. I'm like I realized I'm not that tough I gotta be tougher. They actually they it really took me in well They actually gave me a nickname. They called me like go check it in go which is lobster gringo because I was so red so red because of that because I'm training in 50 degree heat and they're like yeah, you like it I'm like I'm wearing a double weed ghee and those days, you know the big gold weed ghee's weighed like 10 pounds and

Here I'm training Brazil with this Guion. They think I'm crazy. What's wrong man? You're crazy man, your face. They call me Danny, they call me, hey my boy, come, come, come and train. So the first thing they did was like, man you gotta go go get a kimono. I got my first Prugans kimono, which at the time, know, like NASCAR and stuff, and I absolutely loved it. I felt like such a boss with that Guion. And you know, it's kinda cool because I got to meet Viking actually.

We were at the store where I bought it and super cool guy like a surfer dude, like you know, no worries. I'm like, man, this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. These guys I can just like make 30s or the 40s and he's just like, yeah, man, it's all good. You're from Canada. Yeah, I know you're poor, man. So here, I'm to give you a deal. know, the friend price is the color. So it was pretty good. And then I was training actually, I was training there and then I came back to Toronto.

And I was in 98, I you know, I went through the academy like a bull and I tried to shop for everybody. was like, it was getting me a hard time. was, I was just smashing with ease, right? I mean, smashing it nice way. They just couldn't believe it. was like, can I like, feel like I knew like a Hickson Gracie going through everybody. I went to see Grago. It was just hard training. was like hard, hard training. The heat, but also the, you everybody was like, yeah, want to go to the gringo.

The last thing I wanted to do was lose to the guy from Canada. He lose to guy from the States, but don't lose to a guy from Canada where they grab, like, grab both polar bears every day, So I had a good rapport with the guy. But what happened was that in 2001, my instructor from Brazil at the time, I was with another instructor who was related to them. They both ran the same academy. I kind of out of favor with him and was no longer with him. And I went to the training with his cousin, who's actually a black belt under Hickson, actually.

Dan (20:48.21)
it was always worn in my top patch, which was kind of cool because in the Academy, he didn't wear the Academy patch, he wore it in my top patch, which I was always a big fan of. And so he came and came up and I was a Brown Bull from Spine and he came to stay with me for two weeks. And the day before his last boss, looks at me and goes, goes, Danny, goes, yeah, he goes, you're going to become my seventh Black Bull tomorrow. And I was like, what? I was, he gave me a notice at a time. I was like,

I was dumbfounded. And at the time, my brother was in Montreal dealing with all of his stuff with his divorce and stuff. So he wasn't really training. He was trained from time to time. had friends and stuff like that. I was trying to get him down, but unfortunately he couldn't. So that's where I became the first Canadian black belt, not because of anything. But Morisone, my instructor at the time, I told him, listen, my brother's the reason why I am where I am, right?

So I think it only feels right. should be able to get that taken care of and just never did. Only until years later when we became part of Hoi Lur, we became part of the recent night's hour where Hoi Lur got all that taken care of. That's sort of like the of the whole tie in with me being the first Canadian black belt officially. But my brother was always there. He was the teacher. So I made it very clear that, you know, in reality, he was always the first, you know, but I was just, it was just by those circumstances that I was the first, you know.

And trust me, created controversy because there were a lot of people who wanted to become the first name in Black Bowl. I didn't demand it. I didn't, you it was, you told me like literally out of left field. It surprised me. And I had people from all over the country come, no, no, man, you made a mistake. And I'm like, if you made a mistake, you tell a mental. It's not me. had people, no, you sure? I there was 20 people in the room. Trust me. You know, everybody knew. Even one of my longtime students to this day, he was there.

And I had to shut people up back in the old, the underground days, the MMA underground, which was always a crazy place to discuss Jiu Jitsu in Canada.

Nick Castiglia (22:55.746)
Okay, so what year was that? got your black belt.

Dan (22:59.616)
2001 July 2001. Yeah, thanks.

Nick Castiglia (23:02.018)
Wow, 2001. 2001, then, so when do you meet, like when do you meet Hoyler, when you switch to Humaita, like when does that legacy begin?

Dan (23:17.268)
Well, so I was training. I had a bunch of guys who ran some karate schools and were doing practice with me in Jiu Jitsu and they wanted to start teaching Jiu Jitsu in their academy. So I was like, great, no problem. And they had a lot of connections in the United States. And one of my students actually was good friends with a guy who was a poker ball under David Adiv under Oregon. I want to play with his black bones. So he's like, hey, I want to bring them up. Is that okay? I'm like, absolutely. I would love that.

these guys come up, know, I've heard nothing but great things and funny enough the irony was I met David in Brazil and didn't realize I met him. He remembered me when I met him when he did the seminar in Canada. He goes, I I remember, you know, we met in a buffet, they called it Jiu Jitsu buffet where basically they had like an empty storefront and then basically they put stuff up and that's where all the Jiu Jitsu guys went to eat. It was cheap so everybody went to eat there so he bumped it. I remember him.

And anyways, we got into a great conversation, talked about Jits and the philosophies and stuff. Our approach toward my brother and I were both there. with myself and my brother sort of being in limbo, because Moissot and I were, because we're in Brazil and a couple other, had a business deal and we were really, really south and sour. So we kind of stopped contact with each other, which is unfortunate, but it was tough to, you know.

go back and forth and I wasn't really a rich guy. I was broke. I think I was more broke than my Brazilian friends. So, so anyways, so Horler and David are like, hey man, we did a private lesson with David and he's like, hey man, I've seen everything that I've seen. Horler wants to give you guys your first degrees on your belt and professors bands and you don't even have to join the team. He wants to give you those because

It was an injustice for what's happened to you. It's not helping Jiu Jitsu in Canada. So we want to make Jiu Jitsu right in Canada. So here you go. And whatever you want to decide, go ahead. Between you and I, I was always a fan of Wailer Love. Wailer, he was always a person I always respected as a competitor, as an MMA fighter, and as a keeper of the original art of Jiu Jitsu, the self -defense and stuff that his father always pushed.

Dan (25:38.72)
I was like, let's do it, man. My brother and I were like, we're not. And that's when we officially became part of a great team. Back in those days, called it RDDA, or the Grayson David Adiv. In North America, that's what they had. So we were part of that team, Fish and 2004 Actions. It's our 20th anniversary this year of being part of the team. So it's been nothing but amazing times. absolutely love and respect Horlar. He's a great teacher and mentor. And he's become a good friend.

but always respect them as a master and teacher first. to this day, it's 100th anniversary next year, we're gonna go next year to Brazil and celebrate 200th anniversary of Lacey Academy, so it's gonna be a fun time.

Nick Castiglia (26:22.028)
That's wild. The 100th anniversary is next year. Wow.

Dan (26:23.37)
Yeah.

Yeah, I'm not missing that man, not at all.

Nick Castiglia (26:29.388)
That's wild. man, that's, that's great. I, I, again, you know, like there's always these things I find out on these podcasts of friends that we've just, I don't know, never had the time to talk about, or I never asked questions, you know? And, so he gives you your professor stripes and then that's been history ever since pretty much. Right.

Dan (26:30.634)
Yeah.

Dan (26:54.008)
Honestly, it's been 20 years and at times I was like, can't believe it's already 20 years. And the great thing is that it's always been such a great, great relationship. I did not have great relationships with some of my prior professors from Brazil. I'm not saying negative about it, it is what it was and moving on and stuff like that. But at the same time, I do honor and respect them.

publicly say, without these people, I wouldn't be where I am right now. you know, but at the same time, being part of a prestigious team as racing might talk, you know, with the traditions they have, it's something I really, I really love and admire, because a lot of my students come into the door, they want to learn how to protect themselves first, nothing against the competition, who is the competitor? So am I, I being a competitor. I still haven't fought in couple of years, but you

barring some health elements that they're going through minor, but I want to get back on the math and fighting and I'm almost pushing 50. So it's great to have them in Italian. Oehler's always been supportive of the guys that came in. Remember, you're a teacher first and make sure you take care of yourself and take care of your students. And then when you have the extra time, do the training, compete. But if you're going to compete, spend the time, make sure you have a team to support you. So that kind of...

Mentorship is very important to me. My brother gave me a lot of mentorship still to this day. He's up in the clouds as I say. It's very important to have that grounding. It's been a very important part of that.

Nick Castiglia (28:42.466)
Okay, so we've gotten through, you know, getting your black belt, you know, first black belt in Canada, Brazilian Jiu -Jitsu, meeting Hoyler Gracie, affiliating with Hoyler, which is huge. And, you know, if people who are watching, you know, who don't know, Hoyler is one of Valiant's sons, so shame on you. You do Jiu -Jitsu, you don't know that. Okay. So just sort of directly lined up, you know.

as close as you can to the source. And

You're teaching jujitsu. At what point do you decide you're like, okay, this needs to be my full time gig. I don't want to do anything else. And, you know, like, like, what did that look like?

Dan (29:38.176)
It's funny because it was really drawn out for quite a few years. So in 2003, I quit my job full -time, my full -time job, and I had some private lesson students who were like, okay, Danny, guess what? We're all gonna pay you now and you're gonna get a raise, because I guess I wasn't charging enough and they kind of gave me a raise. And all three of them covered basically what my full -time salary was.

So, you know, they caught me a check, you know, monthly and I starting to do primes with them because there was a group of four of them. And for three years, they actually supported me from 2003 to 2006. So those were really helpful. then they actually, were some of these guys running successful karate schools. you know, they were helping me with some things to help out and stuff like that, which was good. It was karate, it wasn't the same, but.

you know, they still similar kind of marketing strategies and stuff, just had that kind of put a bit of a jit -jit question. And so we started to do that and we saw some some progress and stuff. But again, a lot of it was, again, having all those like that trauma from that previous experience from our brothers Academy closing down. Because at the time, our brother Academy, before he left to move to Montreal was 281 students. So for someone who had no, like no

marketing or business acumen for martial arts. He was doing great and it was a team. was a team. Him and myself, know, one day I'm teaching, he's in the office helping people out and then vice versa and stuff. And at the time we actually were running two academies. had one academy, obviously in Woodbridge, and one in Newmarket. And that lasted about a year and it just didn't work out. We were stretching ourselves too thin.

So then we went back and kind of expanded the Woodbridge Club to be like 4 ,000 square feet. And they had weights and stuff like that, mats, know, like a nice big mat area. They had a Muay Thai problem as well. And that was sort of the pinnacle. And actually, I tell everybody, I remember it was a Wednesday night in 1999. I remember this day I sat, there was 47 people in the room.

Dan (31:59.008)
I almost browned out the time. Four strike cardboard balls sitting around looking at us and 47 people. And I'm like, and everyone's like, are you okay? he goes, I'm just, some reason I don't want to take all this in, seeing all these people who are watching the public like me teach, you know? Which at the time was, I guess, his exactly. Exactly. So it's like, it was really cool to see that kind of, you know, people, that hum, that, that much people on the road was great.

Nick Castiglia (32:15.424)
history Canadian history

Dan (32:27.648)
And it was a great night of training, because we trained till, my god, 11 o 'clock midnight that night. And then it was a great team. But like I said, things move on and stuff like that. And when the academy closed, I started from, we went from 280 students down to literally 35 students. And then I kept, everybody kind of just scattered off and did their own thing, A lot of people don't know actually that there's

There's a little bit of a history between myself and Toronto BJJ. Actually, the people who left created this open up to all school called Karma BJJ. And they needed someone to basically buy him out. And the owner of Toronto BJJ was the guy who bought them out, which became Toronto BJJ. So actually, the death of Grappling Arts, the actors became eventually Toronto BJJ, which...

And it was just kind of cool. Everyone kind of laughs at that. at the same time, mean, laughs not anything negatively, but it's kind of cool that people don't realize that from one success to a finishing concluding starts off something else, right? So which, know, my brother wasn't so thrilled about my song.

Nick Castiglia (33:44.128)
What, so, so, so at what point though, at what point in bravado do you, do you decide you're like, okay, like I gotta start running this like a, like a business. I gotta take this from a passion project and I gotta start doing this like a business and like, what did that look like?

Dan (34:00.8)
Well, you know, was about, I think it was around 2012 that I started to really like, okay, I need to get my act together because I was about 120 students, 130 students. It wasn't bad. The rent was cheap. So I wasn't paying anybody but myself. And, you know, I have two kids, you know, so I have a, you know, I have a four year old and a six year old. And so it's like, okay, I really need to start turning this around. And actually that's when

I bumped into you and your old associate and that's when you guys had a business meeting and I like, in what I need to come to this, this is very important. And I felt because I was getting, was at that point, at that point I was sick and tired of being sick and tired and poor, right? And not, know, doing, trying to do everything I can to basically scrounge up to earn a living. And I felt like everything I was doing was just, I was kind of like,

I was kind of stuck in quicksand. more I struggled, the more I was thinking. And I think a lot of times, know, yeah, I can do it, I can do it myself. And thinking back to my brother's old days, well, we were good, but times were different. And things were being more competitive and things were getting more difficult and more digital. So I had to really step up and say, know what, I need to get expert help. And once that first summit, I guess you can say,

And I'm often saying, I remember coming up to you guys and telling you guys, I was in tears saying, guys, I need to turn my school around. I don't want to be like this anymore. I need your help, whatever it takes. And I remember so fondly you guys saying, well, listen, as long as you listen, as long as you follow what we tell you, you're going to be just fine. I'm like, talk slowly. And you know what?

ego was put aside and having a lot of ego and little bit of pride. But at that point, I just wanted my school to do well and not compromise because I think I was talking about the two hats, the martial arts hat and the business hat. And for the longest time, the martial arts hat was calling the shots and the business hat was taken as a side show. But then I was realizing without the business hat, the martial arts hat just won't fit anymore. So that.

Dan (36:21.856)
particular time and moment at that meeting, that's when everything turned for me. And you probably remember that conversation because I was pretty emotional with you guys. So, which you know, I'm an emotional person. That's just who I am. But I think you kind of know. Yeah, no, I think you know, was pretty sincere about, you know, doing what it takes and like immediately saw within 60 days, like already I seeing results and people like what's going on, right? This is is awesome.

Nick Castiglia (36:35.682)
What's wrong with that?

Dan (36:50.912)
I remember you warning me, like, okay, you're gradual, you know, but I did fast -paced but gradual. Not like me, taking 12, 13 years to be, you know, back to, know, to get to that point, right? Which, which, which I'll, which was one of my points I'm gonna talk to you guys about, you know, about what not to do. So.

Nick Castiglia (37:10.38)
Yeah, so, so, you know, you, you, you know, we met up and we did a lot of work and I, and I, and I told you, you know, like before I got on this podcast, like this podcast is about your origin, your story, your history. I don't like it being like the legacy rah rah podcast. I do appreciate the mention, but, you know, we fast forward, you know, we fast forward from that day.

to where you are now and like, you know, I remember, I remember the facility, you know, you were in, how big was that facility before you moved to your like, you know, we called it your legacy gym. like how big was that facility?

Dan (38:03.072)
So the one 10 years ago, the one previous to this one was 3600 square feet. So I negotiated a really good deal. It was actually the same price as my 20 foot, 2500 square foot place, which I think my father first created negotiating skills and acumen business acumen. I think that stuff really helped me out because I was able to really hammer down a good lease. so

literally costed me nothing, you know, like that. I had tried some friends and we all dragged it literally, you know, half a block down the street. And the problem was it was like we called the bowling alley because it was so super narrow and super long. And at the time, it's like that's all I could find because my landlord at the time, one before that, tried to pull a fast one on me and tried to basically, you know, screw me on my lease. So I'm like, no.

I'm leaving, know, and I had 30 days to find something. And at that time was pretty lean to find places. So when I found this place, it was two levels, 1800 square feet, levels. And so we had like a multi -level place. you know, you know what they say, right? know, like the lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig. And this place was definitely a pig. No matter, I still have nightmares this day of...

you know, scraping the walls and stuff like that. and, and, my God, it's like opening something up. my Lord, it's like 30 years worth of renovations that went south. anyways, so I kind of chuckled because those were the days I did a lot of growth and learned, right? Because I did most of the stuff myself, had students helping out and you know, that was the mentality in those days. But when I moved to my legacy gym, that's where I'm like, you know what?

I, all the business stuff that I did saved the money, everything I did out of my own pocket. was a $60 ,000 renovation, including buying new mats. And I was very proud to actually pay that out of pocket. Now my bank account was looking for me, you know, that first week we opened up, but it was like literally an avalanche of people coming into the door. We literally think we signed up an extra 60 students in three months. was, it was a crazy number.

Dan (40:22.602)
We did so well and people were amazed on the beauty of the academy which we have to this day. So we've been here six and a half years. Yeah, six and a half years now. So we're here for another two or three years and hopefully longer. So I don't think I want to get bigger, but to be honest with you right now, I'm starting to rethink that a little bit. But obviously, when that time comes, I'll make that decision. But right now,

We're 355 members right now. It's amazing. again, when you have a machine that big, obviously it takes a lot to feed it. And that's why I always tell everybody that, I remember when I was at 100 students, I thought that was crazy. But then I'm like, well, I want to be 354 members. it's like, what you need. I have employees now, full -time instructor, part -time instructors.

I think I have like five or six employees and plus staff that help me out. So it's great, but it's a lot of work, you know, but I don't regret it. You know, I love waking up in the morning. I love going to the academy every day. So even though I'm at a point where I don't have to teach, I love teaching. I love being there all the time. That's where I feel the best.

Nick Castiglia (41:39.33)
And I think like some things like people don't know, they don't know enough about you guys and because you guys are super humble, you do a tournament every year, you and your wife, and you donate all the proceeds to charity. So you're your wife and is Tony in on that or is it just you and your wife? Yeah, you're your wife and Tony Isaacs and you guys donate.

Dan (41:59.604)
Yeah, Tony does it as well.

Nick Castiglia (42:06.754)
thousands of dollars, like $20 ,000 a year, something crazy like that every single year to charity. Is that right? That's a kids festival, right?

Dan (42:16.882)
So the kids festival was something that Twain and spoke about. Now a lot of people know my son Connor actually, that two and half was diagnosed on autism spectrum. Super high functioning, which is great. But when you get that diagnosis, it's, you know, obviously it's tough for parents. It's tough for any parent to, when they have a diagnosis, something like that, right? you know, and we then we were going through the whole of, okay, early intervention, programs and stuff, and that stuff costs money.

At the time, the government wasn't really doing much. Now the first survey we did, we did it for cancer. A lot of people know actually Tony's sister passed away from cancer some years ago. And we donated to the Cancer Society the first year, which we were great. Then the next year I go, hey Tony, like, is it okay if we do this for autism? You know, because you see this affects a lot of kids and a lot of the kids don't get the help they need. You know what, that's an amazing idea. And every year we've gotten

obviously better and more and more more people. Last year we donated $20 ,000 to autism charities, which is, for some people it may not be a lot, but for the more special community that's a lot. And I'm super proud of it. It's a long day, we've lost our rear ends and we don't get a penny, right? Like, you get my, no, not a penny. Actually I wind up spending money because a lot of times I just...

you know, it's gonna be $18 ,000. And you know what, I'll cover that $20 ,000, that's $20 ,000, so this charity gets it. And it's helping kids. I got quite a few kids in my academy who were on the spectrum. you know, they, can see that they're great kids. You know, I've got two, I got three of them that have been with me for almost 10 years now. They love training and they love being part of the academy. You know, I'm not a side note for my son, Connor. You know, I just started

first year diversity this year at University of Toronto, one of the most prestigious universities in North America, top 10. And they accepted him, which, you know, says a lot. And I think the martial arts and a lot of those things, a lot of things that we did as parents brought him there to that point. So I'm proud of what we've done as a school, as myself, as what I do for a living, you know, being a J -School instructor, being a martial arts instructor and helping kids.

Dan (44:43.1)
And I see I've a lot of kids. But Connor, my son, is probably one of the, as a parent, you have to feel, you know, know, to see him go and chase his dreams.

Nick Castiglia (44:54.593)
That's amazing. That's amazing that you guys do that every year. You know, we asked this question, these two questions, you know, start off with the first one. You're talking, you know, lot of gym owners trying to make it. You know, they start with just listening to the podcast, hearing other people's stories. A lot of our clients listen to it. lot of people, just a lot of different people listen to it in general. And...

You know, you got a gym owner who's out there. He's like you. He's, he was working the full time job. He's trying to run the gym. He's struggling. What are the three biggest pieces of advice that you wish you knew when you were in that situation that you could give them?

Dan (45:44.916)
great. The first thing I tell a lot of people is don't worry so much about what other people expect of you or what they think of you. Number one, and the reason why I say that, because a lot of times people will put their opinions in and they'll really mess with your head when it comes towards running your school. You know, you should be more like this or you be more like that. If your vision is X, make it X. Don't make it Y or Z or anything else, right?

That's very important. That's something that I unfortunately struggle with and I think everybody does. But I'm in right now. I couldn't care less. I'll tell people this is what I do. Like, you I'm supposed to go to, which is okay. But I'm totally fine with that. That's number one. Number two, yeah, you know, write your dreams down. Write your, write your goals. And that was something I never ever really did. I did. My brother was actually amazing at that. I still have notes for my brother to this day. I kept all of his stuff.

You know, I think rightfully so. And a lot of things he wrote down, it's like, man, I remember these, I remember writing these things down with him, right? And I remember a lot of things. A lot of people don't know is actually when my brother and I started, watched when we watched hoists win, you know, a lot of people realize he had four degrees on his belt. And I remember I go, I want to be that. I want to wear that belt one day. And my brother's like, yeah, we're going to do it. And actually today, to this day in my academy, I have a picture of my brother and I hugging each other.

because we got promoted to fourth degree that day by Horather. So that for me was a dream and goal realized. So visualize those goals, it's very important. And number three, don't take stuff personally, don't take shit personally. And that kind of goes back to number one, if you take shit personally, it's going to eat you alive. And that also means control your ego, because a lot of times your ego is going to be your biggest enemy because

it's going to stop you from getting to the results that other people help you with, right? As somebody who, you know, was desperate, you know, you know, when I came to you guys, I was desperate, you know, I had some tax issues and stuff like that that I didn't do. was lazy. I wasn't taking care of my taxes. And I was scared that were, that the CRIs would come back, busting through the door and arresting me, dragging me from my kids, you know, even though that would never be the case.

Dan (48:09.47)
But at the time, you know, was starting to do well, I wasn't being responsible with, you know, taking care of those types of things. So, and then, you know, again, and that's when I started to listen to other people who had the experience. obviously, that's so important. And then once you get that, go out of the way, then things became so much easier. And then I realized, man, I was getting in my own way sometimes. Sometimes you gotta have a little bit of faith and trust in those who...

group who want to help you, right? And for those who know how to help you. That's the problem. I had some people who tried to help me and they were absolute garbage and actually, you know, they sort of helped me but not as much as I'd like. So I think those are the three things that I could recommend to people, especially school owners.

Nick Castiglia (48:54.612)
Okay, we talk about kind of like the three things, the three pieces of advice, the three things you wish you knew. And we were talking before the call, like the three cautions, the three biggest mistakes, the three biggest mistakes to watch out for. Some of them are mirrored, but not always. Not always, they're not always completely mirrored. What would you say are like?

You know, three things to make sure, you know, you don't, you don't mess up on like I, kind of cited one in, in, the last three, you know,

Dan (49:34.304)
Yeah. Well, one of the things I, and again, we hear a little bit of, and again, this is something that's very important. Number one, make sure you keep your integrity. Your integrity is so important. So do not sell yourself short. Don't make the mistakes that would make other people look at you like, damn, you, I know.

Because even in our industry, we have people who have done so many bullheaded things that it hurts our industry as a whole. And we need to stop that. We need to stop that mentality. know, we're, look, look, you know, we're trying to teach people good things, so don't behave in a bad way. I'm not saying like, you know, like, tell kids not to drink coke, but you're drinking Coca -Cola all the time. That's your choice, whatever you want to do. But I mean, like, you know, don't go up beating up people, don't have a bad attitude and all that stuff.

because we have a lot of people in our industry that do do that and they hurt the culture of jiu -jitsu. They actually make the culture negative. know, martial arts in general, that's not just jiu -jitsu, Muay Thai, any martial art, right? So I think that's number one. What was the question again? Sorry.

Nick Castiglia (50:47.138)
Like the three biggest cautions, know, like one, you're like, don't sacrifice your integrity. That was number one. Don't sacrifice your integrity.

Dan (50:50.308)
yes. Yeah. That was number one. Yeah. Yeah. Number one. And number two, the most I think the most important thing is don't sacrifice your time with your family. I think that's one of the biggest mistakes we as a martial arts industry have a high divorce rate. And it's it's unfortunate because what we do for a living is when people are at home enjoying their off time, that's when we're working.

So a lot of times you have to have, make sure you have a spouse that is understanding what you do for a living, knows that, you know, that was the first thing myself and my lovely wife, Nadia, my partner, my partner in crime, even in the academy, you know, we talked before we even got to start dating seriously, like, look, I'm not gonna be at home for dinner every day. Number two, I'm gonna be spending lots of time here at the academy. So I want you to understand that's okay, right? And number three, right? Like, there's gonna be other times that we'll be together.

and that will be our time. you know, don't think it's, you know, it's all doom and gloom. And it was rocking a little bit at first, but then when she started to realize, yeah, we have this time that we can make and she was all in. And I think that's the greatest caution for a lot of people is don't sacrifice, you know, your time away from your family, your kids, your spouse, that's super important. And the last caution is,

This is a very important one. You need to have boundaries with your customers. And I think that's very important. This is a common problem. We get a lot of people that very close and chummy, and then they start getting into your personal life and start to, you know, hear what, you know, maybe your faults are, right? And no fault of anybody's own, they get to know you. Then they start to pick at you, right? And again, you can have the greatest people like,

Tony has been one of my close friends and students for going almost on 30 years, 28 years. He knows a lot about me and I know a lot about him, right? And the good, the bad, the ugly, but at same time, we both understand we were both like -minded people. We care about the martial arts, we care about the integrity of the art and the integrity of the students. But one of things I tell everybody is that you can't get too involved with your students.

Dan (53:13.78)
What I mean by that is basically is like, hey man, you you're there, teaching, you know, and if they want to stick around an extra hour, it's okay, but not all the time because then what are you doing? You're taking away from your family, right? So a lot of times people take advantage of that. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but you know what? There's got to be boundaries and that's very important. And then, know, some people get a little too close and comfortable and that can cause a lot of damage at the home with the misses, right?

I, my brother went through a divorce, I have a couple of friends that through a divorce, just some stuff like that, you know, and listen, you know, has it been, has it been, you know, has it been smooth sailing for me and Nadya? Of course not, we've been through our ups and downs, but that's what everybody goes through in this relationship, you know, I think that is something that I work on. And so I think those are three big cautions, because I think without that stuff, now if you're a single person, that's fine. And that's the other thing too, is that don't be dating students, don't be dating parents, don't be dating, you know,

Don't be making stupid mistakes like that because your integrity will be worked out in seconds. I found a lot of that, I've heard other instructors, people I don't know of doing that kind of stuff and what that does, really puts a bad stain towards them personally, so don't do that.

Nick Castiglia (54:31.484)
I'm really glad you touched on the boundary point and everybody's made those mistakes. I've made those mistakes.

Dan (54:39.731)
DELTA

Nick Castiglia (54:41.562)
And a great saying I heard is we want to be personable, but not too personal. Be personable, not too personal. And I think another thing too is every student's going to leave.

Dan (54:50.527)
Nah.

Dan (54:58.026)
Yeah. Everybody has an expiration date.

Nick Castiglia (54:58.818)
At some point, yeah, yeah, gotta respect the expiration. And if you can't do that, you're gonna die of a broken heart, Especially the sensitive teddy bear guys like us die of a broken heart. So we have to learn to just understand, some people are here for a reason, a season, a period of time in their life to fulfill.

Dan (55:13.568)
Okay.

Nick Castiglia (55:26.154)
whatever it is that martial arts is to fulfill for them for that time, you know?

Dan (55:31.904)
And just to close on it real quick, sorry, sorry, sorry, Nick. This resonated a lot with me. Grandmaster Elio, he didn't give out Black folks certificates, as per se. He gave out a professor's certificate. And that professor's certificate was really difficult to do. And the first thing he told people is that he needs to spend 10 years of your life with me so you earn this diploma. And I think there's not many diplomas handed out. I think there was maybe

I 30 or 35 or 40. It's not a lot, right? But when you had that, that was a big deal. And you had to see, and he says, you're not ready and willing to spend 10 years of your life dedicated to the martial arts or to what I'm doing, then don't worry about it. And it's okay. And he said, that's fine, it's no problem. I'm not gonna think of you less, but at the same time, you need to realize this is what we're looking for because this is the scenario that we want.

And that, when I heard that, and I actually, I was very blessed to be able to train with him once. I got invited to go down and do a seminar in Miami with him. That's one of the he touched upon. was, you know, these are the things that we were looking for then. I think it's very important because we want to keep that standard on.

Nick Castiglia (56:48.3)
So Danny, closing out, not so much advice because you've given that, you've given your three cautions, you're giving your three things you wish you knew. What are the words of encouragement you would give to the struggling gym owner who's trying to make this their living, maybe trying to do all the things? What are the words of encouragement you give?

Dan (57:15.936)
For me, when I was a young kid, had everybody's aspirations as a 15, 16 year old kid. I wanted to be an electrical engineer. I wanted to be an electrician. One day I got zapped really bad. I'm like, nah, this isn't for me. And then obviously the martial arts was there, but people around me viewed the martial arts negatively. But I was listening to the right people. I was listening to the people that say,

You can have a great living. is a very fulfilling and it's, you know, again, if you want to be rich, then don't teach martial arts, right? Like, mean, I billionaire rich driving, going to doors and all that stuff. But for me, I live an honest life. And I think for me, I'm doing a lot of good for my community. That's something that I never thought I was being charitable towards. And I am because what I'm doing, there's not many other people who can do that, right? So

You know, I tell the school owner, you know, don't give up on your dreams. You know, if you have to get that extra job or you have to do the slow work full time and teach at night, you know, make sure that that's what you want to do, right? And you have the support behind you because I think a lot of times people won't support you. So make sure that's in place first. And I think I did all those things correctly for myself. Like I said, you know, it's never going to be a smooth road, right?

You know, as that saying is, know, a skilled sailor, you know, doesn't become skilled in calm seas. It's always in rough stormy seas. So I feel that, you know, a lot of the things that I've been through, you know, and especially like I've had a number of in my family the last couple of years. And if it wasn't for all that resiliency I've learned throughout my years, I mean, any human being, think would just check out and say, I'm done. I don't want to do this. I don't want to do anything anymore.

basically be a bum and live somewhere. no, for me, knew that all the systems I did, all the things I did, was able to even, because of my success, I was able to go spend time with my sick parents. And obviously, when my brother passed away, I was able to do those things and able to even have the financial ability to help. And I remember when was a kid, you like you think as a kid, how am going to take care of that stuff? My mom dad does that. then I realized they were teaching me all along.

Dan (59:39.68)
And my brother especially taught me how to have good workouts, have good values and good integrity in the world. my dad was always negative towards martial arts, never liked it until he actually watched me fight in the Euros in 2016 in Portugal. I got silver there, which, know, it was a little stress. I go, I better do well, my dad's gonna kick my ass. And my dad was like, know, let's move it back to your kid. My father was so nervous to watch me fight. He goes,

As a father, you never want to your son hurt, but it looks like you were doing more than okay. So you know what, that stuff's important. So yeah, those are things to remember, know, like don't settle for second best, push. If you want it, then do what it takes to get it done.

Nick Castiglia (01:00:29.132)
Danny, I just want to thank you from the Legacy Martial Arts Business Podcast. It was an amazing, heartfelt, know, pulled on my heartstrings a couple times there. I also would like to dedicate this episode to your brother, Sil, who is, you know, a super gem of a human who we all loved and cared for and was a great friend. Guys, check us out. martialartsgmownersunited .com. You can click the link, get our free group.

where we give free business information for martial arts school owners to help level up. If you wanna book a consult with me or the team, check us out on legacymaconsulting .com. Thanks again, Danny Maroney of Bravado BJJ. That's a wrap. See you guys on the next episode.

Dan (01:01:07.146)
Thanks.